July07

Closing VistaDB Office

Tags: , | Categories: VistaDB
Permalink | Discussions (20) | Post FeedComment feed by author Jason Short

This is a summary of the email to all VistaDB 4 users.

Hard decisions have to be made

This is a very painful note for me to write. I have poured literally everything I had into VistaDB; time, energy, and money. But there are some realities that I have to face up to. If you cannot charge what it costs you to build something, then you shouldn’t be building it.

Our costs as a business have climbed quite rapidly, but income has gone down. In the past three years the following have happened: Health Insurance for employees is up 500%, corporate taxes are up 22% due to new laws in the US, unemployment insurance is 160% higher now, credit card merchant fees are double; and have much higher rates for international sales, business insurance is now totally out of our reach, server hosting is almost double, the list goes on and on. How much more are we making? Actually, I am making less today than three years ago.

Closing the Company

I cannot afford to work on VistaDB full time anymore, and I am in negotiations with a third party to acquire the product.

The office will be closing August 1, 2010.

Not the product or website yet, but read on for more details.

There are several different scenarios that may play out as a part of this, and I want to try to explain them. I had hoped some of the options listed below would have already completed their cycle by now, but they are taking much longer in negotiations than I originally expected. 

Option – VistaDB Acquired

If this third party acquires VistaDB then anything could happen. They could pull it from the market, and make it an internal tool. They could change the license to be based upon royalties. They could drastically change anything they want, it would be their product. I hope this happens, only because it would mean more resources into the product as a whole.

I am seriously considering an offer from this company to go work for them full time. While I would not be working on VistaDB full time, I may still retain some measure of influence on the product direction as an advisor.  The company seems quite sincere in their offer, but the devil is always in the details.

Option - No One Acquires VistaDB

If I can’t come to terms with anyone, then I may hold on to VistaDB, but it will be relegated to a nights and weekends type of activity. There will be no more full time work on VistaDB from me.  There will be little maintenance on the current product, as I am planning to spend my free time on a more advanced engine. Items that don’t interest me, or are too expensive to support will be dropped like a hot rock (Medium Trust for example). I still have a ton of ideas for the engine, and know I could improve performance probably 10x over what it is today, but not without massive design changes. If this is a hobby / research project then I will make those changes. I will be no longer worried about backward compatibility, or all the crazy upgrade paths.  I actually have a complete engine designed and protyped that is actually faster than SQL CE, but without a way to make money on it there is little point in developing it as a commercial product.

If I hold on to VistaDB, I would try to keep the websites and forums up as long as I can, but the server costs are not cheap. I would probably continue to sell the product, but as a company only type of sale (including source) without official support.  There would of course be community support.

Some business friends suggested I keep the product selling as is, but outsource everything and just let it sell until I recoup my costs. That is not my style. The product is complex, and I seriously doubt anyone could provide support who is not a programmer.

Option – Terminate the Product

This could happen if no one acquires the product, and I accept full time employment somewhere that forbids me from working on things in my free time. Many companies have intellectual property and non compete clauses in employment contracts these days.   This could happen, as I am actively discussing going to work for two large companies within this industry.  Neither would probably take lightly to me continuing research on a product that could eventually compete with something they sell.

Option – Open Source the Product

No, Not really an option at all. Who would work on it? Sure lots of people love to consume open source projects, but very few people contribute to them. And I have put a LOT of money into this product, I am not going to just give it away until I can at least break even. I have to put my kids through college, hopefully reclaim part of the money I have put into the company, etc.  And lets face it donation type projects never, ever make money.  Advertising on the site, etc are all pointless wastes of time.

New User Options

I am going to be changing the SKUs to a source only license in a few days. That will give everyone a chance to buy the 4.1 product and source at a reasonable price. It will ensure you can continue to run the 4.1 product as long you want / need it. No matter what happens to VistaDB.

What about activation and Visual Studio plugins?

I am going to release VistaDB 4.1 without licensing built in. This will allow all source users to continue to install and run in the event that everything is shut down.

It will not be a free upgrade unless you own the source; there will be some fee for it. User who don’t purchase the upgrade will not have access to it.

It will not have everything in the 4.1 I had hoped to release, but because there are breaking interface changes and the license system is different (gone), I have to bump the minor version number.

There will be no Sync Provider, for example. The Sync Provider has had a ton of time poured into it, but it is not production ready (not even close).   There will be no model first in Entity Framework.  Some EF extension methods will not be implemented in the current 4.x product (Skip / Take).

We do have some other new features that did get into 4.1, but that is a different post. There are also some changes in requirements, Data Builder now requires .Net 3.5 SP1 present on the developer machine.

The VistaDB 4.1 runtime is still .Net 2.0 SP1. This will be the last release for the 4.x line in all likelihood.

My recommendation

I seriously recommend that everyone purchase the source. It is a cheap insurance policy against whatever the future may hold. Existing customers will see the source in the Upgrades section of their account.  New users can purchase the 4.1 product with the source and continue using it no matter what happens.

I will probably keep the Infinite Codex site as a personal blog (again if the company I go to will let me).

It has been a fantastic ride, but one with a lot of regrets on my part.  Ah, to look back things always look so clear. 

FAQ

What about CornerstoneDB?  CornerstoneDB.com will continue as a stand alone entity.  Matthew McDonald will take that over and run it as his own.

Discussions

07/07/2010 07:50 #

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07/07/2010 08:06 #

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07/07/2010 11:29 #

Ahmed

sorry to her that ... but what about costumers who don't want to buy the source and still want to continue using there existing products,there should be some kind of arrangement for future activation to there products, cos i think they supported VistaDB at some time and you should consider keeping them in mined..
once again sorry to her that VistaDB is going to close ,, you don't know what destiny hide's for.

Ahmed Kuwait

08/07/2010 12:17 #

Steven Hodson

Wow, as an ex-dveloper who was around when VistaDB was in beat - and became a registered owner at v1.0 stage - I am sorry to see this happening to what I believe was a great SQL engine.

I only hope that you do end up doing something that you enjoy and I wish you the best of luck.

Steven Hodson Canada

08/07/2010 02:23 #

mbira

yeah.. I now understand strange words from vistadb in the reply email on asking the price. Being a programmer, I really understantd such hard decisions. programmers like me, may not interested in the source. so if new price schema only contains source bundles, we have to immigrate to other DBs.

I have waited almost 2 years for vistadb Server, unfortunately today would be an end. wish a rich 3rd part company buy it and make it more brillant.

mbira People's Republic of China

08/07/2010 03:00 #

Alejandro

Sorry to hear that, this are really hard times.

I also expect you will find a solution for users who don't need or want to purchase source, many companies offer in this case a way to reactivate licenses easily like distributing the license schema.

Alejandro Spain

08/07/2010 03:30 #

Christoph

VISTADB is a great product
It is wrong to give a away the source so cheap (I bought it for $6800 two months ago, well lost money, that can happen). If you dont give it away that cheap and keep to support only the source code owners while working on a new product, it would maybe have helped. I understand you cannot do all, and surely the crowd of wanting all for free is too big these days.
If your really wanted to sell your product to 3rd party, this announcement was the kill for it, so maybe communications should be done more careful.

GOOD LUCK WITH FUTURE DECISIONS AND PROJECTS

Christoph Switzerland

08/07/2010 05:01 #

Peter

I am sorry to hear about the closing of the company.
I last posted here, voicing my worries when you introduced the Licence Activation system. The closing of the company has now brought home my worries regarding the use of such systems. I like many others have being using VistaDB since version 2 and paying support all along. I am currently paid up until November, but I have not paid or had any need to pay for the source code. However, I find the restriction of the 4.1 Activation Free version of VistaDB to those who have paid (or will pay) for the Source version to be bordering on extortion.

Peter Ireland

08/07/2010 10:50 #

Stephan

I am extremely sorry to hear about VistaDB closing down.
I have used it in many projects as a MSSQL alternative and drawn quite a few developer colleagues into purchasing the product and using it extensively.
Now that you are closing down ship and shop I am pretty much in chaos. Effectively removing my ability to re-activate if I ever re-install my development machine will not allow me to support ANY of the projects I have used VistaDB in.
Purchasing source code ... if I needed to, I would have. I have paid years of subscription fees so you could maintain it.
I do not want 4.1 ... I want to continue to use 4.0 and it's features ( which I have paid for ) even if I reformat 1 day before my license expires.

Stephan Italy

08/07/2010 11:23 #

Paul

When will 4.1 be available and how much will it cost?

If I buy the source code now, will I have to pay for the 4.1 version?

Paul United States

08/07/2010 11:59 #

js_vistadb

People who buy the source now will not have to buy 4.1 - releases within 30 days of a purchase automatically get the newer release.

People who don't want the source, but want to continue activating can upgrade to 4.1 (without source).  That is a $5000 site license basically for the price of a minor version release.

If the site is closed and you don't upgrade, then you won't be able to activate in the future.  4.1 has new features, and enhancements.  Not just the license changes.  And the minor version upgrade price is quite inexpensive.  

Or you can continue to use what you have today until (if/when) the site goes down.

Thanks to those with kind words of support.  I have been very fortunate to have the support of a lot of great developers out there.  It has been a pleasure to have worked for all of you.

To those who want to post scare comments here and on the forums - actually read through what is in the post.  [b]It lays out POSSIBILITIES of what could happen.  EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE IS VALID FOR ANY PIECE OF SOFTWARE YOU OWN[/b].  Any company could go under, any company could be bought, any company could change their license.  I just spelled it all out and made people think about it.

js_vistadb United States

08/07/2010 01:25 #

Jose Santorro

If VistaDB is [i]completely dropped[/i] wouldn't it be fair to release a last 4.0 version that doesn't require activation? Downloadable by customers with a valid subscription?? I mean I understand your situation, but a lot of us have been supporting your product since the early days, when VistaDB was full of bugs and was performing really badly, we kept paying our subscriptions because believed the product had great potential (and it does).

Good luck to your and your staff for whatever you do next.
Cheers;)

Jose Santorro United States

08/07/2010 01:48 #

js_vistadb

You paid for activation of developer machines.  That is still there.  IN THE EVENT IT ENDS it is no different than any other company.  4.1 is an UPGRADE - you can buy it or not.  It cost me real world dollars to built it, so yes I am charging for it.  

What you have today is not different than yesterday.  At some point in the future the servers will be turned off - even if I was in business for the next 10 years.  3.x is already deprecated, 4 would be at some point too.

Most of the users who love to quote they have been "paying me for years" when I look it up have spent less than $300 in three years.  For the 99 releases we did, plus all the huge new features and upgrades given away as a part of that it is nothing to cover the costs.  Most companies would have released 3.3, 3.4, 3.5 each as major releases and charges users for the upgrades.  If we had then I might not be in this situation.  I thought more people would be willing to pay for subscriptions because we had so much value.  Less than 5% did.  You can't give away thousands of man hours of work and stay in business. Doesn't work that way.

One user who complained very, very loudly on the phone today when I looked it up he had spent a grand total of $179 with us since April 2007 (that is when I took over the company).  When I asked him about that he said he thought he had spent at least $2,000...  Not even close.

js_vistadb United States

08/07/2010 02:53 #

Jose Santorro

Supporting a product isn't just paying for it,  it is also basing your development on it, talking about it, participating on the users' forum whenever you can, testing betas etc ...  giving in return (a bit) more than just paying the bill. You have your reasons for doing what you are doing and I respect that. Anyway, if VistaDB is dropped we will have to switch db vendor sooner or later, thus having an activation-free product won't change a thing.

Again, wishing you the best for what you'll be doing next.

Jose Santorro United States

08/07/2010 03:01 #

Uwe

I'm not happy to hear this new but I'm also thinking on how to go further. I'm a subscription user and my subscription is running until end of December. I didn't hear anything what's with users like me.
Regards
Uwe

Uwe Germany

08/07/2010 03:04 #

Alejandro

I don't think it's a matter of how much we spent, it's just we have purchased a product and nowhere was said it is time limited.
Therefore the correct answer would be activating for live the product to all users with a valid license if you won't be able to reactivate it in the future.
Regarding that we have based our developments in your product the price we are paying is way larger than the simple license cost.

Alejandro Spain

08/07/2010 04:19 #

David L. Penton

Good luck, Jason. I am sad to see this happen to VistaDB, as I thought it was a great alternative for GraffitiCMS when that was more alive. I wish you the best and will continue to look at VistaDB favorably.

David L. Penton United States

08/07/2010 05:45 #

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